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Poison is a function of dosage. Water is a poison in a high enough dose.

What’s you’re arguments it’s not a drug?

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Alcohol requires an astronomical intake compared to most drugs, and I'd say the indiscriminate action and lack of any particular affinity is what makes it a poison as opposed to a drug. It is also generally assumed that alcohol is not exactly in the same category as drugs. ("drugs or alcohol" etc.)

That's purely because it's usage is accepted nearly as a default, and drug in common usage is most often a pejorative term if it doesn't refer to a medicinal context.

Most people who use drug as a pejorative term also wouldn't use it to describe caffeine.


"drugs or alcohol"

I usually encounter this framing from alcohol drinkers who are trying to be self-righteously judgemental about users of other drugs without getting hit by their own boomerang, so seeing it used for what is essentially the opposite opinion (i.e., that alcohol is worse than other drugs) is quite refreshing.

I still disagree with it, though. Alcohol is clearly a drug.


> Alcohol requires an astronomical intake compared to most drugs

That's primarily because it's most commonly diluted 90%. Spirits (or everclear) have much lower intake required.


I did not say alcoholic beverages, I said alcohol. Even pure ethanol still requires a far higher dosage than most drugs.

But the "Active dose" to "lethal dose" ratio, aka "therapeutic index" of alcohol is pretty bad.

Don't you mean that it's quite good? It's easily more than an order of magnitude for many people (not sure about chronic alcoholics with high tolerance). How many medications can you 5x your dose and not have some risk of ending up in the hospital?

Heroin (IV) ~6x

GHB ~8x

Ethanol ~10x

Methamphetamine ~10x

DXM ~10x

Cocaine ~15x

MDMA ~16x

Codeine ~20x

Methadone ~20x

Mescaline ~24x

Flunitrazepam ~30x

Ketamine ~40x

Phenobarbital ~50x

Nitrous oxide ~150x

LSD ~1000x

Cannabis/THC ~1000x or greater

Citation: Gable RS. Comparison of acute lethal toxicity of commonly abused psychoactive substances. Addiction. 2004;99(6):686–696. doi:10.1111/j.1360-0443.2004.00744.x


Well given "therapeutic index" I had said "medication" as opposed to "commonly abused substances". I think your list skews heavily due to psychedelics tending not to be acutely toxic to the same extent as other chemical species.

Statins for example are probably 10x to 20x (quick napkin math based on an animal study I found). Tylenol is 10x and is OTC.

Personally I consider alcohol to be much safer than many other substances given the form it typically takes. Utterly irresponsible binge drinking aside, most people will suffer serious adverse effects long before they're in danger. Compare that with pills or injections where an OD can be entirely inadvertent even when observing basic common sense.


Two things:

1. Half of those drugs on the list do have medicinal uses.

Even methamphetamine and cocaine are used medicinally (admittedly rarely).

2. Tylenol poisoning is the leading reason for poison control center calls.

>80,000 U.S. Poison Control exposure cases in 2021 involving acetaminophen or an acetaminophen-containing product.

https://poisoncenters.org/news-alerts/13244374


7-Up contained lithium citrate until 1950. The soda jerks were literally treating manic depression during WWII. There were advertising signs for it at crosswalks on city streets. Make 7-Up Yours, Baby!

Any product that contains ethanol but is not intended for consumption will be adulterated with ingredients that make it really unpleasant to consume. Any drug, OTC or sometimes even prescription, that has a risk of abuse, will be combined with another drug that makes it impractical or dangerous to use it recreationally, or isolate it for manufacturing.

So the next time you wonder why all your cough medicine has to come with guaifenesin, or you need a psychiatrist to prescribe your lithium carbonate, you can blame all the addicts and Walter Whites out there who ruined it for honest people.


> an acetaminophen-containing product

Careful because that's some opioids as well.




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